Q: I would like to order a metal double fire rated door for a project we have in Hawaii. What is the lead time? (total openning 6 X 7) Do you ship to Hawaii?
A: The link here:
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will help hget you started. We can ship to HI. Do you have any specific question at this time?
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Q: I have a 9x16 roll up garage door I want to chang it to a 9x16 double metal and frame
A: Are you looking for 9' wide on this opening?
Please let us know if there is anything else we can help with.
Q: Hello Richard, I have some questions.
1. What size are standard doors? I was under the impression our doors were pretty generic.
2. What is the purpose of the astragal? To act as a latch guard? Or maybe to keep the doors aligned?
3. I only measured the width of the doors up to the astragal because the guy who has the key was off today, and I couldn't get it open. Would this throw off the measurements?
4. Is the purpose of a continuous hinge to help distribute the weight of the door? Would you recommend a continuous hinge for every door installation?
5. You spoke of a rain cover to protect the door from interior rusting, but I don't see it on this list.
6. What brand and model type doors are you quoting? I'm curious because in my research, I found 16 gauge, 18 gauge, CE, CU, ST type doors, LS1 type lock...I would like to know your thought process in choosing what you did.
7. Do the door sweeps work against water? We have multiple Adamsrite doors that water gets pushed underneath into the tenant's space when we pressure wash our sidewalks. Would door sweeps solve this problem or should I be looking for weather strips?
Thanks, Waylen
A: Let's begin by addressing your points one at a time.
Standard size doors are typically 35 and three quarter inch wide , but based on the dimensions you provided I would not classify your doors as generic at all. Not only is the hinge height of 4-3/4" very odd but the location of the hinge on the door, or 3 hinges as a matter of fact are custom locations that frankly I've never encountered in the past. If you feel you dimensions, please revise and resubmit
The purpose of an astragal is to simply close the gap between the 2 doors and yes you are correct, to also act as a latchguard in exterior swinging Doors this is very commonly understood as a way to act as both the latchguard and a filler to close off the gap between the 2 Doors .
Learning now that you've provided dimensions where the doors were not opened I can only tell you that the dimensions you provided must now be scrutinized again and probably all dimensions were taken because we're going to manufacture the doors based on the dimensions you provide. In short - remeasure everything and as indicated originally when we spoke, I do not need to know the actual door size, but the frame inside opening, as the dimensions you provided are absolutely custom doors, at least that is what those dimensions indicate. If you remeasure and find that you are dimensions on a second trip are different Kama it will possibly allow us to use doors that you might consider or that we might consider generic.
The purpose of the continuous hinges as it relates to this quote, was specifically because it allowed us to keep the cost lower as custom hinge Heights of 4 and three-quarter tall would only serve to drive the cost up. Having said that it is indeed true that continuous hinges are significantly better equipped to carry the life weight of the doors over a long-term and carry a lifetime warranty.
Indeed the rain cover I neglected to include in the itemized proposal earlier but have included a link to the item for your review below this response.
The doors I am quoting are made by a custom hollow metal company called Karpen Steel and I've included a link to their website below this response as well .
My thought process in selecting the doors that I did were purely based on the locations that you've provided as there are no manufacturers that share these dimensions. Further, you refer to codes that I'm unsure of (are these abbreviations for hardware locations?).
The doors I have quoted would be 18 gauge and galvanized and include freight to the west coast.
Regarding door sweeps sure they work against water against rodents against insects against things that will insure it under the door. Regarding your comment about pressure washing the doors obviously weatherstripping is not intended to handle water that's coming out of a nozzle at a hundred PSI but we can discuss ways to help mitigate that but frankly if you're going to power wash doors at the bottom you're going to get water on the inside regardless really of all of our attempts to resolve that from happening. It is potentially possible that you're going to use door sweeps along with a bump up style threshold and perhaps automatic door bottoms along with including drip caps to the door sweeps themselves to help mitigate the problem, but at the end of the day you're going to need to find a way to not hit the bottom of the doors with a pressure washer.
Drip cap:
Click Here
Karpen Steel:
Click Here
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Q: Hello Richard, My apologies, during our staff meeting, I was informed that I had measured the wrong doors. I thought double doors, when they said two doors facing the back driveway. I have attached photos of one of them.
The doors measure 47 1/2" x 83"
The hinge is 4 1/2" Height
to bottom of lowest hinge is 8" Height
to bottom of middle hinge is 40 1/4" Height
to bottom of highest hinge is 72 3/16"
The frame looks fine. The hinges look fine. The panic bar has a few cracks, but functions fine. Your thoughts? I was also told that for the Adamsrite doors, the problem isn't that water is getting pushed into the tenant space, but as water pools in front, it will slowly make its way in. Would the door sweeps you suggested work? If so, I would need about 61 of them. Thanks, Waylen
A: Here are my thoughts:
Regarding the doors you have measured, did you measure the 47-1/2" width from the interior push side or from the exterior pull side. Please remember, we do not want dimensions from the door as much as we want to know the inside frame dimensions. Having these dimensions allows us know better what size door will work properly given the frame size.
Please advise the frame dimensions and measure from the inside of the header to the top of each hinge please.
Adding door sweeps will certainly help keep out standing water from coming under the door and can say if you currently do not have door sweeps, I would suggest adding them immediately. Do you have thresholds installed? Is there perimeter gasketing installed?
Here is a good choice for a heavy duty and durable door sweep:
Click Here
With today’s high maintenance and replacement
costs, Reese Polyurethane Weatherstrips are the
best choice, especially in high abuse areas such as
schools or correctional institutions, dusty or abrasive
environments, extremely cold locations or areas of
high traffic. The Polyurethane insert features:
? 4 times the tear resistance, 40 times the tensile
strength and nearly 100 times the abrasion
resistance of silicone.
? Flexible to -58oF.
? Unaffected by ultraviolet light.
? Resistant to fungus and petroleum based solvents.
? Unaffected by Halon® fire extinguishant.
If cost is more important than durability, here is a low cost option with a Vinyl insert:
Click Here
Please review and advise.
Q: Hello Richard, I measured the door from both sides, and they were identical. Are the measurements supposed to be different? The inner frame dimensions are 83 1/2" x 48". By inside header, if you mean the top of frame where the door fits into, then the measurements are: Top of frame to top of highest hinge: 7 1/2" Top of frame to top of middle hinge: 39 7/16" Top of frame to top of bottom hinge: 71 3/8" Thresholds are installed, and if by perimeter gasket you mean the fuzzy strips following the door's edge, then yes they are installed. What is the difference between a weatherstrip and a door sweep? Would they need to be cut to size on site or are they sized to fit? Just to clarify, I am asking for two single doors, not a set of double doors. Thanks, Waylen
A: Sir thank you for your response.
The information that you have provided me is exceptional . It's exceptional in the fact that it is very clear and has moved us away from most likely a custom door to a stock and standard door.
The only point of contention at this moment is the fact that you're inside frame dimension is 48 inches wide. You have previously noted that your actual door with this 47 1/2 inch wide. The 48 inch dimensions for the frame with is good - meaning it's expected and standard / common. The 47 & a half inch actual net width of the door however is too small to be standard. At this moment what I ask you to do is to confirm the 47 1/2 inch with door dimensions and confirm that that is either accurate or if it is more accurate to say that the door with his closer to 47 and three-quarter inch.
You asked if the dimension is supposed to be different on one side of the door compared to the other. The answer is, yes possibly, it is different . If the dimensions were different from one side of the door to the next it would tell me more information about the door and would lend my conclusion to be that you've measured the interior push side of the door and if the door had a 3° bevel on it meaning that it was not square he would tell me that the exterior with the door would indeed be wider than forty seven and a half inch.
What we need to know at this point is what is the actual dimension of the door and I'm asking that you confirm it's 47 and a half inch. If 47 and a half inches accurate than the question I will have his do you want a door that is 47 and a half inch wide or do you want to do or that will be 47 and three quarter inches wide.
The 47 and three quarter inch door will be considered a standard door.
Regarding the height of your frame at 83 and a half I'm going to presume that that is from the inside of the header to the top of the installed threshold. A staff a standard door is going to measure 40 a standard door is going to measure 83 and one eighth of an inch tall please confirm that this net height will be appropriate for your application.
Regarding your hinge locations they are within tolerance to be a standard manufacturers locations.
Regarding the exit device - I would need to know if you want us to do any preparation for the exit device meaning is there to be a hole drilled or is there not a hole drilled. To be clear you might have an exit only Panic device that does not require a whole whatsoever on the exterior face of the door. I just simply need to know how you want the door to be.
Regarding the door sweeps you have asked if they are cut on-site or are they sized to fit. The answer is we can supply them at any net link that you want you can order them literally anything that you want and we will supply them that way. Regardless weather the door sweep is neoprene or vinyl or silicone or polyurethane - it would need to be trimmed but this you can do with a utility blade.
I understand that you indeed you need to single doors and not one pair of doors.
Regarding your question about if the perimeter gasketing is the same as a door sweeps- no door sweeps get mounted at the bottom of the door. Perimeter gasketing gets mounted at the two vertical jams and at the header . And thresholds are always attached to the floor and under the door.
Q: Hello Richard, I redid the measurements, and you are correct, the outside of the door measures 47 3/4". It was the inside of the door that measures 47 1/2". You are also correct that I measured the height from the top of the threshold to the top of the header. I am unsure how to answer for any hole placements for the panic bar, but I do recall when I re-keyed it there weren't any significant holes, just a few small ones. Would looking at the previously attached photos help in any way? If you need any more specific measurements, I will be more than happy to get them to you. I would like to go with the $6.50 door sweep, and I would need 70 of them. I guess my next question would be if the term 'weather strip' is the same as 'perimeter gasket'. Thanks, Waylen
A: Indeed yes the previously supplied photographs are very helpful . Do you want me to quote the doors as prep for these exit devices or do you want me to have the door sent out without any holes for you to drill them in the field once the doors have been received?
Regarding the door sweeps that you have selected I am happy to proceed with an order at this time for those. Shall we call you to take the order over the telephone?
Your next question was is the term weather strip the same as perimeter gasket ? Answer is no. The term weather stripping is used to generically to reference a door sweep or a threshold or perimeter gasketing. Whereas perimeter gasketing just typically refers to the weather stripping at the header of the door and then the weather stripping at the two vertical jams of the door.
What can I do specifically at this time to move this order for work for you?
Q: Hello Richard, My apologies for the delay. My guy is telling me that the panic bars are in bad shape, so I will need to verify this by taking it apart. Would you be able to tell me what model panic bars we have from the photos and direct me to a parts list in case it is a simple fix? In the mean time, would you be able to send a quote for the doors without holes and a quote for doors with panic bars? Regarding the door sweeps, I would prefer to place the order along side the doors so as to save on shipping costs, and have them arrive together. Thanks, Waylen
A: Yes indeed I can help you with the exit devices however please be more clear and descriptive regarding what your calling quotes bad shape and quotes I'd like to know specifically what the problem is with the exit devices and I can help us direct you into the right direction for a parts diagram.
Regarding your quote request for doors without holes and a quote for doors with panic bars but I'm asking here is do you want to have a quote for doors without any holes for exit devices or do you want to have a quote for doors with holes for exit devices or do you want a quote for doors with holes for exit devices and exit devices included?
Regarding door sweeps you state that you would prefer to place the order alongside the doors to save on shipping costs and have them arrive together. That makes perfect sense however, in reality, the door sweeps will ship from a separate Factory and would be a separate shipment regardless. So holding up the door sweep order for the door order is just possibly unnecessarily holding up the order for the door sweeps. Please proceed as your construction schedule allows.
Q: Hello Richard, The exit devices are Von Duprin Model 971243-00. The latching and locking mechanisms function fine. The exterior covers have a few cracks in them due to their age, so if I could get a parts list, I can order the necessary parts to replace the damaged areas. I would like 1 quote for 2 doors without holes drilled in them, and 1 quote for 2 doors and 2 exit devices. Thank you for clarifying the issue with the door sweeps. If I were to place an order with you or should I just go through your website? Thanks, Waylen
A: I will work toward producing a quote for the metal doors and providing the exit device parts manual you require.
Regarding the door sweeps, yes contact me or shall I call you to enter the order? We will need the exact length you want all the items manufacturered ans shipped at? Or we can send them all out at common lengths whereby you will then trim them to the net length required. Please advise how we are to proeed on the sweeps.
Q: Hello Richard, As you know we have placed the order for the doors sweeps. Thank you for your patience and direction regarding the proper swep to use for our application.
Regarding the exit devices are Von Duprin Model 971243-00. The latching and locking mechanisms function fine. The exterior covers have a few cracks in them due to their age, so if I could get a parts list, I can order the necessary parts to replace the damaged areas.
Regarding the doors, I would like 1 quote for 2 doors without holes drilled in them, and 1 quote for 2 doors and 2 exit devices.
Thanks, Waylen
A: Thank you very much for the order for the door sweeps, we will have the material made up and shipped out for you within just a couple of days.
Regarding the ends of devices the model number that you have provided is actually not the model number of exit device that you have. The model of exit device that you have is the 22 series which can be reviewed starting on the 21st page of the PDF link down below this response. As you scroll through the parts diagram you will see a tremendous quantity of individual pieces, their part numbers, and exploded drawings showing where everything relates to the other pieces in the exit device. After close scrutiny of the photographs you have provided I can tell you that the device type that you have is the 22L. We can supply you with all of the different parts that are available for this series of exit device, and when you have the list of items that you would like to replace please feel free to reach out to us directly and we will enter the order for you.
Regarding the doors I will be emailing you a quote for the two doors without any holes drilled in them and then as an alternate a quote for the two doors and the exit devices and therefore a prep for the doors to have the trim requirement cutouts for those exit devices.
Is there a follow up question that we can perhaps attempt to answer? We take deep pride in our technical expertise, as we know it separates us from our competition, so don't hesitate to ask.
The link to the parts manual is here:
Download File
Please reply to this email or contact our sales department here:
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if we can assist you by answering further questions or with entering this order and please let us know if there is anything else we can help with. If this answer was helpful - please consider following us on Twitter
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Q: What is thermal bow?
A: Thermal Bow is a temporary condition which occurs in metal doors mainly due to the temperature differential from one side of the door to the other. This may occur in exterior doors when direct sun rays strike the door surface. When air conditioning creates a large temperature differential, the core may swell, causing the door to bow toward the sunlight. As a result, the lock can bind in the strike and fail to latch properly. Adjustments to the strike, latch or weatherstripping in the field are a temporary and inadequate solution. This condition, and the degree of bowing, depends on the door color, construction, length of exposure, temperature, etc. Thermal Bow can occur in reverse under extremely cold conditions.
Typical symptoms are:
Door will bow towards the sun or exterior of the building
Hardware latching and unlatching difficulties
Door clearances may very tight at the top and bottom of the door
Ways to alleviate condition:
Painting the surface of door a lighter color finish
Select the door with a core construction of door which is less susceptible to thermal bow
Honeycomb and steel-stiffened doors are the least susceptible
Install or use of an awning to block sunlight exposure on the door surface Q: Are astragals required on Steelcraft fire doors?
A: According to Allegion
Astragals are required on:
3 hour fire rated pairs:
Double doors - swinging in the same direction
Double Egress - swinging in opposite directions
Fire rated Dutch Doors
Fire rated 1 3/4" thick Flush Transom Panels when used in Transom Frame without Transom bar.
All other openings or due to hardware application astragals are not used and/or required.
Steelcraft offers as standard a 'Z' astragal mounted on inactive leaf. optional astragals include 'Z' mounted on active leaf, flat bar astragal mounted on pull side or push side. All astragals are fabricated from 14 gage material.
Q: Hi looking for recommendations - what i have is dbl door opening two 3' doors they open same direction (one RHR and one LHR ) _/ \_ when the doors are closed there is a gap of 3/8-1/2 between the doors,the doors are rated @90 min. The new fire Marshall would like my customer to fill the gap. do you carry anything that would work for this .
A: What is your hardware set installed on this pair of doors?
Q: I don't remember the manufacture but the hardware is panic with SVR.
A: The textbook correct way to satisfy the requirements of NFPA 80 would be to replace one of the two door leaves so as to not exceed the maximum allowable gap of 3/16" (actually defind as 1/8" +/- 1/16").
Having said that if the AHJ will allow applied hardware to permit compliance you could consider adding the edge channel astragal as seen here:
Download File
One on each side may bring it down to the max of 3/16". This will allow independent operation of each leaf.
If not you might consider a flat bar astragal on one of the two doors, changing one device to a mortise or rim style, adding a carry bar and a coordinator or open back strike as needed.
Q: Can a transom frame have a removable transom bar?
A: Removable transom bars are available for non-rated frames.
A closed section mullion available
Special clips to attach to frame sold separately.
Removable transom bars are not approved or available for:
Fire rated openings
Florida Building Code (FBC) openings
Miami Dade County (NOA) openings Q: Can double egress frames be prepared for pocket pivot hinges?
A: Pocket pivot hinges are mainly used in cross corridor applications where clear opening width is a factor and yes Double Egress Frames - hinge jambs are single rabbet profile the pocket pivot hinge can be prepared without profile changes with a minimum 2" face. For frames with less than a 2" face, both special frame profiles and special anchors must be ordered.
Q: Are astragals required on 3 hour rated pairs of doors?
A: All 3 hour fire rated pairs of doors do require an astragal when used without a removable hardware mullion.
Pairs of doors with removable hardware mullions are treated and listed as 2 single doors. Pairs must use Rim Fire Exit Hardware.
Q: What is the standard gap between a pair of doors hung with continuous hinges?
A: The standard gap between a pair of doors will be 3/16" when used with a Steelcraft "Z" astragal. If a wide inactive leaf is requested (no astragal) the gap between the doors will be 3/32". Steelcraft adds 3/32" to the strike side of the inactive door to close the gap between doors on wide inactive leafs. This applies to all pairs of doors when used with butt hinges or continuous hinges.
Q: What is the definition of double egress?
A: Double Egress Opening: A pair of swinging doors, each leaf which swings in the opposite direction of the other.
DOORS: A pair of doors swinging in opposite directions without a vertical mullion.
FRAME: A door frame prepared to receive two single-acting doors swinging in opposite directions, without a center mullion.
HARDWARE: Openings usually equipped with a Vertical Rod device on each leaf.
optional hardware application - push/pull. Q: Is there a mullion for use in double egress applications?
A: There is no mullion for double egress openings. Mullions only applies to the doors that open in the same direction.
Q: Are astragals required on fire doors?
A: Depending on the manufacturer, astragals are required on:
3 hour fire rated pairs:
Double doors - swinging in the same direction
Double Egress - swinging in opposite directions
Fire rated Dutch Doors
Fire rated 1 3/4" thick Flush Transom Panels when used in Transom Frame without Transom bar.
All other openings or due to hardware application astragals are not used and/or required.