Q: Hi, I am trying to find a weatherization product for some custom made steel exterior doors. the problem is that the gap between door and frame is 1/4" to 5/16". Is the Pemko S773 with a width of 3/8 really going to be enough, as it has 3 fins of increasing length, but only the longest is 3/8". (BTW Richard -- your videos are super helpful.)
A: The size would likely work
but is self adhesive what you actually want for a Chicago winter?
Q: what do you suggest? door is metal, frame is metal.
A: can you attach here
photos of the door and frame
detailing when you propose to add the S773?
Q: Amazing video – thanks for taking the time. I’d like to do it right, so I’m going to follow your advice. Can we continue the conversation? Here are a few questions/ideas.
1-Do you have a contractor you would recommend who could help? This is as you said a non-trivial task that will test my patience. A contractor could help. Plus I haven’t worked with metal. I can drill holes, but no welding, etc. And I have 5 metal doors to weather strip.
2-If I weld an L bracket or a square tube to the outside of the frame, could I use, e.g., 35041_NB as it was intended, and not have to cut off a part. It would also allow me to put in the automatic door bottom without installing the plastic triangle on the inside.
3-Do you have any suggestions for the key holes and handles? I was thinking about replacing the key hole with a L-handle with a keyhole at the end. This may allow me to put an L bracket and the 35041_NB even alongside the handle – but that may be too optimistic.
4-Do you have a suggestion for the double-door. (I hope I sent you the picture, but I’ll attach it just in case.) In that case the two doors meet. Would you recommend something like from p. 187, e.g., 29324_NB?
Again, thanks so much for taking the effort to work through my situation.
Best,
Anup
A: Number 1 where are you located? I may have a contractor to refer to you but it will depend on your geography.
Number 2 I certainly do think that attaching Square tube to the face of your frame is a very reasonable way to proceed . You could probably get an angle and welded or even screw it to the face of the frame which is likely going to work.
Number 3 what exactly is the question regarding the keyholes and handles are you concerned with how to weatherstrip those areas or are you looking to replace the hardware with something different?
Number 4 the double door will be easy to weather strip in the center where they meet, you can simply use the same type of bristle weatherstripping with the exception that it would not have a 30 degree angle to it but something just flat as you have alluded to..
Q: 1-I am in the wIcker park neighborhood of Chicago. Right at the Armitage exit of 90/94 on the north side.
3-Both. Replace keyhole with L handle. Then weatherstripping around that. My though is the brush solution may also work around the lock if there was a handle.
A: I have sent you directly an excellent contact I have whose name is Matt from Northern Security.
Let Matt know you and I have communicated and that I thought his expertise and attention to detail may prove the "perfect fit" for your application.
I agree you can apply brush to solve the issue and look forward to a focused path forward once you have an installer "on board"
Q: Rich,
I am going to want to place an order for the components you suggested. Below is a list of parts for each door, sorted by part number. I had a few questions though.
0-Can you price the items below? The grey lines are sums. [list not posted here]
1-How long will delivery take? I have a metal-working guy hoping to start Monday of next week. So the sooner I can get the parts, the better.
2-The V-cushion says its for metal, while the spring bronze says its for wood. So should I use the V cushion? My door is 2” wide; how wide should the spring cushion be?
3-Are there door bottom sweeps with brush rather than vinyl (like the 35 degree brush gaskets)? Or do you think I should go with the vinyl?
4-My metal-working guy says he can simply weld bars at an angle to serve as my door top rain drip. What do you think?
5-What is the difference between the 35 degree retainer and the 45 degree ones? The latter seem easier to install. (I am going to weld a square beam to the outside of the frame to help instllation.)
6-I am still waiting to hear from Matt whether he can do the job. As I mentioned, I have a metal worker who can help. All Matt has to help with is installation.
Thanks!
Best,
Anup
A: 1. Allow 2 - weeks for delivery
2. Use the V cushion along with the metal twist screws as specified
3. There are ample options for brush / bristle sweeps. What part number are you starting with as a baseline? Is it the 3452BN which is about [removed] per foot
4. The cost of steel bar will far exceed the cost of aluminum pieces. For this reason alone I would not opt for this solution.
5. Only the degree is different - I agree the later would be preferable for this same reason.
Parts you want pricing on as follows. All items butt he B75 are sold per foot, so a piece 37"long is priced as a 48" piece.
B75 - [removed]
NL13516BP - [removed]
3452DPK - [removed]
346D - [removed]
35061DNB - [removed]
4301DNBL - [removed]
Q: Before I finalize the order (and I’d like to place it today), I have some questions:
35 v. 45 degree retainer. I’d prefer the 45 since the pieces seem better suited for what I want. (I’ll get the metalworker to weld 1.5” or 2” square tubing to the outside of the frame so that we can attach something like 35061_NB to the new welded part, as intended.) For the 45 degree, would you recommend 29346_NB (page 184) or 45062_NB (page 185)?
V cushion. Does this add much value given that I also have the 45 degree retainers? Or, to put it another way, will bristles keep out the cold, or is that why you recommend the V?
Door bottom sweeps with rain drip. I was thinking 3452_PK, which is what you mentioned in your video. But that has vinyl/rubber. A) Do you like bristles better? That is what you recommended for the sides and top. B) If bristles are better, what part number do you recommend? C) Would it be better to just put the automatic door bottom on the outside? With the new square tube welded to the outside of the frame, I may be able to install the automatic door bottom on the outside without the triangle.
Additional materials. Do I need screws (e.g., NL13516 wafer head) for everything and the triangle part you mentioned for the automatic door bottom?
Is it possible to put a rush on delivery or is that not possible because it may not be in stock or is prohibitively expensive? My main issue is coordinating with the metalworker and seeing if Matt can help with installation. Either way, I want to order today.
Thanks!
Anup
A: 1. 29346DNB for sure if the extra cost is not a major outlay - the concealed snap cover is soooooo much nicer looking when complete
2. The addition of the V cushion is a "belt an suspenders" approach. Can you argue it is overkill - yes you could. Would I use it to help arrest and retard to transfer of air, yes I would. FYI - make a decision and stick with it as weatherstripping cannot be returned.
3. for the door bottom, use the 3452DNB bristle as seen here: https://absupply.net/searchfast.aspx?KeyWords=3452DNB
do not use the V insert
4. The auto door bottom certainly install on the exterior. Again, "belt and suspenders" approach.
5. If you use the V, you will need nails and yes you will need the plastic blocks if the ADB's are on the interior side.
6. The lead time cannot be improved. this is all made to order -
7. I stand by ready to push through today the order you submit. I understand the desire to move forward as quickly as possible. I do suggest incorporating all opinion on this project. You have mine and having the installers idea and advise based on experience would be at least as invaluable as everything else.
Q: A few last questions:
1-Should I get the screws from you (eg the wafer head)? How much are they?
2-Pemko says they can color the aluminum black. How much longer would that take?
3-Can you confirm that the nylon brush keeps out the cold? Or does the V cushion (or a vinyl do that better)? Door bottoms that have neoprene eg have better air infiltration protection than nylon brush.
Once we’re done, I’d love to order. Shall I call in with a credit card?
Thanks!
Anup
A: 1. The screws were listed in my initial response.
2. Pemko will not produce an order of this size in black. They would have a min.order charge that would be obscene for this small a qty. Again - I suggest you have it powder coated black to match as my opinion the dark bronze will clash on black.
3. Nylon brush is exceptional at guarding a door from cold, are far more flexible in extreme temperatures when compared to neoprene and are far better at contouring to irregular surfaces such as your existing sills. Use neoprene if you feel it is better - I feel bristle is better overall.
4. I do not have samples and ordering them from the factory is my only option (figure 10 - days to get samples). I would prefer the path of patience and testing prior to ordering, but i understand you are operating under urgent circumstances.
5. Credit card - yes feel most free to call Rich 773-09-3667 but please remit to me your final list for review prior.
Q: Hey Rich Ive got to say your videos have been so helpful. When a question arises on a piece of hardware that Im not familiar with I always check out your site first. I have a question that requires your level of expertise . This latest job Im on has the following listed on door/hardware schedule . Interior corridor of apartment building Timely frames Pemko Smoke seal S44 Pemko Smoke seal S773 Pemko corner pads ACP112 Auto door bottom Pemko 434 Pemko Threshold 172 Standard 4 1/2 x 4 1/12 hinges Falcon closer SC61a My question - Its been my experience that the S773 can make it both difficult to pull open and difficult to get the closer to latch the door reliably. But here they are calling out 2 sets of smoke seal, a drop down sweep, and corner pads. Am I missing something in the installation that is making this difficult? Or would you agree that there is some redundancy here that will make these doors nearly impossible to latch reliably on the power of the closer? Id appreciate your opinion before I tell the superintendent/arcitect that we need to change some things.
A: The hardware set as written is likely written to reflect the needs of the owner (and hopefully not an overly ambitious hardware distributor). The best, correct, hardware set is written to accommodate the requirements of fire code (NFPA 80), Life Safety code (NFPA 101), Handicap code (A117) and the realities of the installer. The second set of smoke seal could be specifically requested by the owner though quite likely not required for code compliance. It could also be an unintentional duplicated line.
Your installation needs to reflect the requirements above and if you are concerned with the set as written, build a mock up, with all hardware installed as called out. Be sure you hav the correct door margins on all 4 sides and the closer device properly adjusted. Be sure to have a force gauge and document, then share, your findings with the GC.