Q: Hello, I've seen your videos on YouTube on pivot hinges and thought you guys would have the experience and knowledge to answer my questions and supply me with the hinges I need.
I have an upcoming project which requires a "concealed" door leading to a closet.
The door: 18" x 80" x 1 3/4" thick solid core door, weighing approximately 50 lbs.
The jamb will be 1x poplar material, but can be unsized to 5/4 if needed. Flooring is oak.
The door will swing out into the room. The door will have a piece of baseboard, 3/4" thick, attached to it with bevel cuts on the end to blend into the baseboard on either side of the door when closed.
The door will have no casing. 5/8" drywall will be butted up to the jamb with a z-molding, leaving a 1/4"gap between jamb and drywall.
I'm hoping that you have something in mind that can accomplish what I'd like to do, as well as have enough throw to it that the baseboard does not stick. Obviously, the hardware can not show, as closed the door is supposed to be "invisible". Thank you, Gary B. [removed]
A: Will the drywall butt to the backside of the jamb creating a shadow line or will the drywall run flush to the face of the cased opening frame? If flush to the face, the presence of the drywall will preclude using Soss hinges as the templating as seen here will not suffer the inclusion of the drywall:
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Leading us to the posibility of using a center hung pivot as seen here:
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The issue will be note #3 and the requirement to radius the heel edge of the door. Applying a bullnose to the heel edge will allow you a .125" gap between the frame and the door stile but this treatment will complicate the application of baseboard at the bottom of the door.
The leads me to the Hager 510 Rescue Pivot Set seen very commonly in bathroom doors in hospital rooms:
The Hager 510 is for use with Square edge door, 1/8” gap on both hinge and lock stiles. This hardware operates on a "rack" type principle where the door moves into the opening laterally when the door is opened. This hardware is concealed and allow you to sidestep the bullnose treatment on the pull side on the pivot stile.
The penultimate question becomes, will the "rack" - Camtrol movement accommodate the 3/4" applied baseboard. While I do not have a cad drawing or a video showing the position of the door at 90°, I am very tempted to say it will work. Shall I investigate this matter further.
Additional documents are available for your review here:
Installation Instructions:
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Template:
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Cut Sheet:
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Is there a follow up question that we can perhaps attempt to answer? We take deep pride in our technical expertise, as we know it separates us from our competition, so don't hesitate to ask.
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if we can assist you by answering further questions or with entering this order and please let us know if there is anything else we can help with.
Q: Hello- First, you have an amazing website, very informative! And it seems you are extremely kind and helpful in providing direction on what type of hardware is needed so here I am. I'm looking for assistance for a pivot hinge for my built-in cabinetry. I've attached a pdf of sketched- plan view of the front of door and back of door for your reference as seen here:
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as well as imagery as seen here:
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of the cabinetry installed to date. I'd like to use a pivot hinge to create a single door swing built into my cabinetry- out or in swing can work. In the past I've used Stanley 340 pivot hinges but I'm finding the way the cabinetry was built my original design will not work. Ideally I'd like all the weight to be supported in the floor pivot hinge and secondary support in the cabinet above. The cabinet above is empty so I can add additional blocking inside if needed. I've done a lot of research on your site though I'm hoping to get some further direction on which hinge can work for this type of installation. The plan is to mount (2) cabinet door panels onto a single panel back door finishing with a toe kick at the bottom. I can still tweak the design of the single panel backer door. The only thing that cannot be changed is (2) cabinet door panels as they mirror cabinets at the end of the built in wall. *All panels are 3/4" thick 31 7/8" space from filler to till for door to go into *Cabinetry is full overlay 31 3/4" x 83 7/8" - Back Panel @ 61 lbs 15 13/16 x 79 1/4" (2) Cabinet door panels @ 18lb/each (to be mounted on back panel 31 3/4 x 3" +/- I'm running into the issue of the finding hardware that will carry the weight of the panels. I'm also finding that since the main back panel is only 3/4" thick I "might" have a problem mounting it onto the floor pivot. I'm hopeful I can screw the floor pivot into the center of the 3/4" panel, aesthetically it's fine if it's sticking out slightly from below. The front I figure I'm fine with since I have the (2) cabinet door panels mounted. I also need to make sure I clear the open, so this is where I'm questioning do I need 3/4" or 1.5" offset pivot hinge. Options I thought would work: Rixon 128 3/4 - All rixon hinges seem to be out of the question because per hardware specs all doors need to be beveled, correct me if I'm wrong. ABH 0173 Floor pivot states "Floor stud into concrete" - will this not work installed into hardwood? Deltana PH60 -maybe? Stanley 340- The heavy weight option needs to mount into the wall, I have a filler but no blocking here, unless you can recommend a way to tweak this. THANK YOU in advance for your time. Please feel free to call to discuss, I figured it was best to kick off with sending my details in for you to review. I can follow with a call as well if you can kindly direct me to a name & phone number to contact.
A: Increase your back panel thickness to 1-1/2” thick, band that back panel with hardwood lumber at the top and bottom so that when you mortise the pivot hardware to it you have something substantial to screw into, use the 0147 x 1-1/2 as seen in the Cut Sheet here:
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and the Template here:
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and position the installation as seen here:
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and can be purchased here:
Click Here
The additional 3/4” back panel thickness allows you to get the commercial hardware installed as 3/4” is insufficient in thickness. The 1-1/2” offset also allows it to act as a normal 3/4 inch offset because you're adding that decorative panels of the face of your backer.
I would also consider additional hardware such as the Rockwood 593-626 Roller Latch with Angle Stop - Satin Chrome Plated Brass that incorporates a stop as seen here:
Click Here
I'm more than happy to help you with the carpentry, woodworking & mortising that would be required on this project as well.
Q: Richard, Thanks for the follow up. I think I understand your direction. Are you suggesting to do (2) 3/4" panels back to back with and the piece at the bottom and top are the bands? I've attached another sketch for you to look at as seen here:
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If the sketch is correct, do you recommend a minimum height the band should be? I am meeting my cabinet guy on Monday to finalize the pieces that need to be made. I was also researching solid core doors that I could use for the back panel to achieve the 1 1/2" thick backer board but am coming up unsuccessful for "instock" items. Thanks again for your help-
A: Your sketch is exactly what I am suggesting. Doing so will give you adequate thickness to mount the pivot hardware to. I suggest the top and bottom hardwaood to be 1-1/2" thick. You might also band the vertical stiles with 3/4" thick hardwood for a finished edge.
Regarding your door search, we keep in stock 1-3/4" solid core doors and can re-rail and re-stile them to your required size. Though you might want to consider using a hollow core wood door, though there would be a lead time.
What can I do to assist you in this neat project at this time?
Q: Is CH-100 a valid part number for a Dorma Bottom Pivot?
A: While there is a source online that is listing a Dorma Center Hung Commercial Door Bottom Pivot and calling it the CH-100 as seen in the following images:
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and is described as:
This Bottom Center Hung Door Pivot is manufactured by Dorma. It's an adjustable end load floor pivot set for bottom door rail channel depth of 7/8". Bottom door clearance is adjustable from 3/8" to 5/8".
Maximum weight capacity 200 Lbs.
After further research I believe the CH-100 is actually the Dorma 8852 bottom pivot as seen here:
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and here:
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and can be purchased here:
Click Here
Alternate products, though not exactly the same, I might would recommend the following two options as potential alternates.
The
International Closers 3010-DP Adjustable Dual Purpose Bottom Pivot Set
as seen here:
Click Here
or the International Closers 3010-G Adjustable Floor Mount Bottom Pivot Set
as seen here:
Click Here